Contact Us - Plenty of better engineered options out there. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is a computer located in a cars engine that controls the cars engine and transmission. Detroit. At the worst, if the issue re-appears (low likelihood), you might end up out of pocket for a fairly affordable repair. If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Your email address will not be published. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. In simple terms, engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt coming from the engine bay. But unlike my previous trucks, this ones not going to be an overlander or rock crawler that needs to not leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. How Much Does A Powertrain Control Module Reflash Cost? I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. The affected bikes were sold at Walmart stores nationwide from February 2018 through July 2018. If you search 21N08 you'll see that's the fix for it. These are technically not recalls but an extension of coverage if the customer has a concern and falls within the window of . The vehicle is a CPO but I feel like the selling dealership didn't do a great job looking it over, so I took to a local dealer in AZ (I purchased it in UT). I would like to hear from some of the owners which have had the 21N08 update done and see if their issues have gone away. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. Ford Motor Company will provide a no-cost, one-time repair under program 21N08 to return the vehicle's PCM to the prior calibration. The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. This program covers certain repairs that may be needed as a result of a software issue. Just noticed a shudder after the truck was serviced last weekend. BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. Im new to my 20, is this a TSB? Manage Preferences - 21N08B 1.2 Hours Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. If you are an astute shopper, you might have found these issues before buying a vehicle. This can be done by a Ford dealership or an authorized service center. Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. Some specific causes of the engine shudder 21N08 issue may include-. What is my next option? Fords are equipped with an adaptive shift feature where the computer learns to adjust the shifting for a smoother ride based on the drivers habits. The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. Ford TSB 21N08: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2019 Ford F-150. Cam phaser requires extensive effort and should only be attempted by those who are comfortable with working on cars. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. . If you own a Ford vehicle, theres a good chance that it has been recalled for a PCM reprogramming. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! 2. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder . Your email address will not be published. it's a software update to prevent a phaser . Issues with IWE potentially caused by PCM Reprogram. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received . I am actually looking to buy my first F150 3.5L EcoBoost, as a used truck, but have seen a lot of posts regarding the. I had the original work done under warranty 54k . The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. You literally just typed back exactly what I said. The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing JavaScript is disabled. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM . Brought it back to the dealership and they ran the 21N08 - PCM Reprogam Due to . Im going to try to use it as a point of negotiation. Common transmission issues that may contribute to the engine shudder 21N08 issue include low transmission fluid levels, worn transmission components, or a damaged transmission control module. They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency. Y'all better read that letter again. Reaction score. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. So, we see that transmission issues may be the cause behind 21n08 engine shudder. I have a 2018, just got the same notice. Any suggestions on what to do would be helpful? The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index148/. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. Replacing rear bumper trim panel - anyone had to? additional VCT or engine timing related components not included in the Parts List. You may then need the cam phasers replaced through the 21N03 customer satisfaction plan. How will this extend your powertrain warranty 2 years? What did you do to your truck today? Sounds good to me. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. The recall is for bikes with front wheels that can detach unexpectedly, posing a fall hazard to riders. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. If it is, theyll likely recommend getting the pcm reprogrammed. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. Diagram. Yesterday drove the truck from NY to Maine and all through the traffic out of NY truck had a strong vibration right around 1000 rpm and would settle at a full stop. This seems like a red flag when combined with the recent "Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER" and "Program #21B10 POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE REPROGRAM FOR CAM PHASER RATTLE" repairs that show up on the carfax. But, this process cant be run in an unauthorized way. This removes the shudder. were completed so that you will be covered by the Ford warranty of 70k miles regarding cam phasers/VCT systems. The dealer will reflash the powertrain control module (PCM) with new software to fix the problem. Cookie Policy - If the rpm is above 16-1800 it drives smooth as can be. This resolves the cam phaser noise on startup issue (you know, the annoying Ford cold start cam phaser rattle). What is this all about? There is a new Recall specifically for this. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. If not, you will want to get the latest computer updates before the warranty expires on it. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Positive Experience: Third Party Warranty Repair, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? But what exactly is engine shudder? Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. What causes the engine shudder 21N08 issue? I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. #5. Honestly? If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. Hello mjpatera! Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle, Rear Light Wiring Ford Tail Light Wire Colors, Top 6 Brake Pads for 2013 Ford F150 44: Find the Perfect Fit for Your Truck, 6 Best Mud Flaps for F150: Ultimate Guide for Truck Owners, Boost Your F150s Power: Best 9 Cold Air Intakes for 2017 Ecoboost Reviewed. Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. The 21N03 was the one I was thinking of. This can be caused by something as simple as a loose spark plug, or something more serious like an issue with the crankshaft or connecting rods. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. I called my dealership this morning and they said there was nothing to be done to the vehicle. If a car is not regularly maintained, it can lead to problems such as the engine shudder 21N08 issue. t seems like every other Raptor and Ford 10R80 has these issues. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. I got it too. Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. The engine shudders 21N08 issue is a problem that causes the engine to shake or shudder. If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Yep I have been told it just means that Ford is extending the warranty in regards to cam phasers to 75k I believe. If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. These guys are simply trying to Band-Aid a crap design. I've seen some mention of a shifter cable clip that breaks or something. @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. Hello Raptor world. And if you do need to restart it, make sure youre in neutral or park before doing so. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. If you previously received the 21B10 PCM update at a Ford dealer and are now experiencing the engine shudder, you should take advantage of the PCM reprogram. Contact Us - Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. So, it is certainly very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the drivers and passengers. If your cam phasers are not noisy, don't fix stuff that isn't broken, obviously the earlier PCM upgrade was done that extends your warranty to 70000 miles and prorates beyond that, you don't have the shudder so not needed the 108 flash. 21N08 is for those with engine shudders. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. The situation is really bad with Ford now. So they basically work 15 hours but get paid only 10 hours. Later that day, it stalled again when I was at a red light. Sep 13, 2021. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 was an extended warranty coverage on engine cam phasers on vehicles that had received a PCM reflash prior to December 31, 2021. Unfortunately, many users reported a return of the symptoms after the 21B10 reflash. Privacy Statement - Engine. I have used premium fuel and it didnt make any difference. might be auto on/off that truck comes equipped with, There is a new Recall specifically for this. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. By updating the software, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder 21N08 issue. It may not display this or other websites correctly. So far, the results are positive. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. So far, these recalls have been effective at solving the problem and improving customer satisfaction. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. When the computer is programmed, it will erase this programming andthe vehicle will have to relearn your driving habits. At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. Dealer will. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. Manage Preferences - Advertising - The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. I appreciate the help. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. From what the rep told me 21B10 needed to be done before 21N08 even though I have a FSA for 21N08. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. Contact Us - I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. The transmission is responsible for transmitting power from the engine to the wheels. Sounds pretty promising Sounds pretty promising 2015 - 2020 F150 - 21N08? In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. I noticed mine is doing this as well. Hopefully, I'll be switching over from 11+ years of Land Cruiser and Jeep ownership. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; . Only 21B10 has to be completed, 21N08 is extended coverage. This PCM update is program 21B10. Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". Copyright 2022 by MechanicsPick.com! (1). We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. This can be caused by a variety of factors, including a dirty or faulty mass air flow sensor. Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance . Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? Oh ok perhaps a good point. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. This repair is a one-time thing and is only offered until Janurary 1st, 2023. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. I had the original work done under warranty 54k miles. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. It may not display this or other websites correctly. to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. The 21N08 PCM reprogramming is due to an engine shudder that was noticed by some customers. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Hey! Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. Likes: 1. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. You must log in or register to reply here. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued. cam phaser rattles. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. This new customer satisfaction program is designed to reverse engine shudder caused by this previous PCM calibration. I imagine that you may get the cold start rattle and earlier cam phaser failure, but at least the engine wont shudder. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Mine does this while at low rpms. The below is copied and pasted from this thread: 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. However, if the vibrations are severe enough to cause your car to shake or rattle, then its definitely time to take it to a mechanic for further diagnosis. By addressing the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the cars performance and fuel efficiency can be improved. Advertising - and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. What did you do to your truck today? This just appeared in my ford pass. Your mechanic can hook up a diagnostic tool to your car to determine if this is the issue. Since we know what these issues are, you are safe to buy one of these Ford models. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. My name is Zachary Drumm! .any advice? Less rattle on startup, and no adverse effects so far. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index152/. Over the weekend I pulled over to the side of the road to get something out of the glove box and the truck stalled while I was idling in park. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Has anyone else experienced this after having the PCM updated? Advertising - So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. Reliability is important to me.

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